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The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 17.1012  Saturday, 18 November 2006

[1] 	From: 	David Kathman <djk1@ix.netcom.com>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 14:06:32 -0600
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[2] 	From: 	C. David Frankel <frankel@arts.usf.edu>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 15:22:51 -0500
	Subj: 	RE: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[3] 	From: 	Al Magary <al@magary.com>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 12:40:17 -0800
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[4] 	From: 	Alfredo Michel Modenessi <beehog@servidor.unam.mx>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 15:32:03 -0600
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[5] 	From: 	Alejandra Simari <alesimari@yahoo.com.ar>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 23:12:48 -0300 (ART)
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[6] 	From: 	John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
	Date: 	Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 22:09:13 -0500
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[7] 	From: 	Nora Kreimer <norakreimer@fibertel.com.ar>
	Date: 	Friday, 17 Nov 2006 00:40:34 -0300
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

[8] 	From: 	Jack Heller <jackheller@kconline.com>
	Date: 	Friday, 17 Nov 2006 11:27:55 -0500 (EST)
	Subj: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		David Kathman <djk1@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 14:06:32 -0600
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

Terence Hawkes wrote:

 >Nora Kreimer tells of a production of Twelfth Night in Russian,
 >by Russian men and boys, staged in Buenos Aires. She claims
 >that 'The script had the original text in this white screen-ribbon
 >that is also used for opera.'  I'm not sure what this means. She
 >also says that it was marvellous. It sounds to me like a characteristic
 >triumph of the multi-lingual, shape-shifting, boundary-blurring
 >Bard who these days dominates too many of the world's stages.
 >But Shakespeare it ain't.

I assume this is the same production that is coming to Chicago, at the 
Chicago Shakespeare Theater, from November 22 through December 3. One 
may read about it (and buy tickets) here:

http://www.chicagoshakes.com/productionDetail.aspx?id=4500

It got a rave review from the New York Times. Looks pretty interesting, 
but I'm not going to get into arguments about whether or not this is 
"Shakespeare".

Dave Kathman
djk1@ix.netcom.com

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		C. David Frankel <frankel@arts.usf.edu>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 15:22:51 -0500
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	RE: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

 >But Shakespeare it ain't.
 >
 >T. Hawkes

But then again, what is?

C. David Frankel
Assistant Director of Theatre
School of Theatre and Dance
University of South Florida

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Al Magary <al@magary.com>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 12:40:17 -0800
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

Terence Hawkes wrote:

 >Nora Kreimer tells of a production of Twelfth Night
 >in Russian, by Russian men and boys,
 >staged in Buenos Aires. She claims that 'The script
 >had the original text in this white
 >screen-ribbon that is also used for opera.'  I'm not
 >sure what this means...

That would be supertitles, used in opera houses since about the late 70s 
to convey the essence of the dialogue and lyrics because of the 
producers' realization that there are more Verdians around the world 
than speakers of Italian.  Supertitles at my local opera house in San 
Francisco were projected on a semi-wide, one-line screen above the 
proscenium.  A surtitling system can use LED screens mounted on 
seatbacks.  Both are discreet and, I think, offend only the purists who 
have memorized libretti in several European languages plus English.

Cheers,
Al Magary

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Alfredo Michel Modenessi <beehog@servidor.unam.mx>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 15:32:03 -0600
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

What my Argentine colleague probably means is sur-titles, "the kind of 
ribbon (she means a sort of electronic scrolling device, I guess) that 
is also used for opera". Interesting to know that in the magnificent 
city of Buenos Aires, one of the greatest places on earth to see good 
theatre all year round, good Shakespeares included, they should have 
used the original text for that and not the work of one of the may 
capable translators currently working in Argentina.

Wonderful, too, to learn that what I did last year--namely what I 
thought was a translation of Shakespeare's _Macbeth_ precisely for the 
sur-titles to the remarkable production of the play by the British 
company "Out of Joint" that toured Mexico, set against a contemporary 
African setting of extreme violence--very likely "ain't Shakespeare" 
either. As Shakespeare probably ain't any of my--or any other 
translators', for that matter--versions and adaptations with companies 
that, unfortunately, must use languages other than Elizabethan English 
for their surely unintelligible productions. I'm truly, madly, deeply 
relieved that I'm automatically free from the burden of responsibility 
that doing a "real Shakespeare" must entail.

Or maybe Shakespeare 'tis, after all? What say you, oh sages?

Non-Shakespeheareanly yours,
Alfredo Michel Modenessi

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Alejandra Simari <alesimari@yahoo.com.ar>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 23:12:48 -0300 (ART)
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

Has Prof. Hawkes also watched the Russian production? Otherwise, I see 
no reason why he should underestimate Prof. Kreimer's opinion in such a 
rude way. So far, I have considered this group as a place where ideas 
open to respectful discussion, which, unfortunately, is not the case now.
Regarding the "multi-lingual, shape-shifting, boundary-blurring Bard who 
these days dominates too many of the world's stages", I feel it is one 
of the greatest things that Shakespeare's plays can offer. Isn't it 
wonderful that a play can bring different cultures together? Argentines 
watching a Russian version of an Elizabethan play! If we take into 
account that in the pre-globalized Elizabethan England Shakespeare's 
audience included almost all social ranks, why should we frown upon 
diversification now? I have taught my students that Shakespeare is 
unique in the fact that, after so many centuries, he is still universal. 
People around the world still enjoy his breath-taking poetry, and I 
humbly believe it is remarkable that cultures which are so different can 
be brought together to share such an amazing play.

Alejandra Simari

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		John W. Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Date: 		Thursday, 16 Nov 2006 22:09:13 -0500
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

Terence Hawkes <terence.hawkes@btinternet.com>

 >Nora Kreimer tells of a production of Twelfth Night in Russian,
 >by Russian men and boys, staged in Buenos Aires. She claims
 >that 'The script had the original text in this white screen-ribbon
 >that is also used for opera.'  I'm not sure what this means.

Presumably a projected supertitle system (so called because they are 
shown above the stage, instead of being below, as movie subtitles are). 
They are used in many opera houses today, especially in English-speaking 
countries, where operas are almost never translated (but not at the Met, 
which instead has an LED display installed in each seat back).

[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Nora Kreimer <norakreimer@fibertel.com.ar>
Date: 		Friday, 17 Nov 2006 00:40:34 -0300
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

I absolutely agree with my most respected and often quoted Prof.Terence 
Hawkes. "Foreign nations do as they do..."said Mr Podsnap and they still 
do, because it's the only way. Shakespeare is only Shakespeare, our 
Shakespeare, in English, no modern updating, no translating allowed. 
But, living in a Spanish-speaking country, the only way to access 
foreign authors is through translation, or access is denied. This is an 
absolute truth, and I will be the last person to defend this practice of 
translation of poetry. It's a necessary evil, difficult as it may be to 
digest: it is the only way!

Translating one of our greatest Argentine poets into English, I have 
often met with Prof Hawkes's objection: it isn't the same! "But 
Shakespeare it ain't." (sic) But, though great Homero Manzi it ain't, it 
is the only way his marvelous poetry may be read world wide in English, 
and be studied and analysed by students at university. Like Jorge Luis 
Borges!

Many years ago I attended a performance of Mozart's The Magic Flute at 
the Royal Opera House in London. The singers sang in English and we had 
a good laugh because we understood their words. I didn't think it was 
less of a Mozart masterpiece because it was in English, though I admit 
some German might have objected fiercely to this adaptation.

I apologize for not being clear regarding this translation device that 
is used in our great Opera House, the Colon Theatre in BA. But I just 
don't know the term either in Spanish or in English for the screen white 
line that offers the captions of operas and that was also used for the 
Shakespeare text in Spanish that the Argentine audience in BA enjoyed, 
when the Russian company came last year, to perform Shakespeare in 
Russian...There must be among our members of SHAKSPER a director, or 
perhaps a producer, who might instruct me as to the exact word referring 
to this technology.

With great respect and admiration for Prof Hawkes

Nora Kreimer
Instituto Superior del Profesorado Joaquin V. Gonzalez
Depto de Ingles
Profesora Titular Literatura Inglesa

[8]-------------------------------------------------------------
From: 		Jack Heller <jackheller@kconline.com>
Date: 		Friday, 17 Nov 2006 11:27:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'
Comment: 	Re: SHK 17.1007 Russian 'Twelfth Night'

I don't plan on seeing the the Russian TWELFTH NIGHT, but apparently it 
has a scheduled run opening this week in Chicago: 
http://www.chicagoshakes.com/productionDetail.aspx?id=4500

I think I would prefer the Italian Macbeth schedule for later in the 
season, performed with marionettes. I am a sucker for puppetry.

Jack Heller

_______________________________________________________________
S H A K S P E R: The Global Shakespeare Discussion List
Hardy M. Cook, editor@shaksper.net
The S H A K S P E R Web Site <http://www.shaksper.net>

DISCLAIMER: Although SHAKSPER is a moderated discussion list, the 
opinions expressed on it are the sole property of the poster, and the 
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