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The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 13.0705  Friday, 8 March 2002

[1]     From:   Alan J. Sanders <sandersa@ga.prestige.net>
        Date:   Thursday, 7 Mar 2002 12:09:07 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0699 "frog"

[2]     From:   Michael Harrawood <mharrawo@fau.edu>
        Date:   Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 13:37:24 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 13.0699 "frog"

[3]     From:   Philip Tomposki <philiptski@hotmail.com>
        Date:   Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 14:04:22 -0500
        Subj:   RE" 'frog'

[4]     From:   Peter M. McCluskey <pmcclusk@frank.mtsu.edu>
        Date:   Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0600
        Subj:   RE: SHK 13.0699 "Frogs"


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Alan J. Sanders <sandersa@ga.prestige.net>
Date:           Thursday, 7 Mar 2002 12:09:07 -0500
Subject: 13.0699 "frog"
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0699 "frog"

Really?  I thought it stood for "Finished Room Over Garage."  Guess I've
been looking at homes too much of late.

Alan

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Michael Harrawood <mharrawo@fau.edu>
Date:           Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 13:37:24 -0500
Subject: 13.0699 "frog"
Comment:        Re: SHK 13.0699 "frog"

Re Frank Whigham's query:  I always thought that the folk song
"Froggie's Come a Courtin," which is still pretty much standard in
beginning music courses, dated from the Alencon courtship.

Michael Harrawood

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Philip Tomposki <philiptski@hotmail.com>
Date:           Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 14:04:22 -0500
Subject:        RE" 'frog'

There is web site "All About Frogs" (Really!!) which provides a series
of legends about how the French came to be called frogs.  It includes
the story about Elizabeth, as well as variations of the story I'm
familiar with, that the frog was the symbol of Clovis I and eventually
evolved into the fleur-de-lis.

http://allaboutfrogs.org/weird/general/frenchfrogs.html

Philip Tomposki

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter M. McCluskey <pmcclusk@frank.mtsu.edu>
Date:           Thursday, 07 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0600
Subject: 13.0699 "Frogs"
Comment:        RE: SHK 13.0699 "Frogs"

Frank Whigham asks, "Do we know if the abusive use of the term "frog"
for the French has anything to do with Elizabeth I's nickname for her
French suitor Alençon?"

Probably not.  It was the Dutch whom the English initially called frogs
(because they lived in fens).  The OED, under 'Frog,' has a 1652
reference to Hollanders as frogs, and there's a citation from 1700 for
'Froglander' meaning a Netherlander.  During the three Anglo-Dutch wars
of the 17th century, English satirists repeatedly likened their enemy to
marsh-dwelling frogs.  In "The Embarrassment of Riches," Simon Schama
gives several instances of English writers referring to the Dutch as
frogs and states, "It was only in the eighteenth century, when France
rather than the [Dutch] Republic had established itself as a major naval
adversary of the British, that their satires turned to eaters, rather
than imitators of the frog, for stock abuse" (264).

Nevertheless, frogs have long been associated with the French.  Edward
Topsell's "History of Serpents" (1608) contains this interesting
statement: "I do marvel why in ancient time the Kings of France gave in
their Arms the three Toads [Topsell regards the toad as a type of frog]
in a yellow field, the which were afterwards changed by Clodoveus into
three Flower-de-luces in a field Azure, as Arms sent unto him from
Heaven" (729).

Doris Adler perceives froggy allusions to Alençon in Spenser, Sidney,
and Lyly: see "Imaginary Toads in Real Gardens," English Literary
Renaissance 11:3 (1981): 235-60.

Hoppy to be of help,
Pete McCluskey
English Department, Middle Tennessee State University

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