SHAKSPER 2000: Re: Wooden O

From: Hardy M. Cook (editor@ws.bowiestate.edu)
Date: 03/24/00 

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 11.0552  Friday, 24 March 2000.

[1]     From:   Mike Jensen <mjensen@mayfieldpub.com>
        Date:   Monday, 20 Mar 2000 11:02:19 -0800
        Subj:   SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[2]     From:   Kevin De Ornellas <k_de_ornellas@hotmail.com>
        Date:   Monday, 20 Mar 2000 19:04:23 GMT
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[3]     From:   Clifford Stetner <clifford.stetner@gte.net>
        Date:   Monday, 20 Mar 2000 19:42:58 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0521 Wooden O?

[4]     From:   Harry Hill <Harryjchill@aol.com>
        Date:   Monday, 20 Mar 2000 20:36:46 EST
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[5]     From:   Tim Richards <parallax@wire.net.au>
        Date:   Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 14:05:40 +1100
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[6]     From:   Peter Holland <HollandP@hhs.bham.ac.uk>
        Date:   Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 09:06:13 -0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[7]     From:   Werner Broennimann <Werner.Broennimann@unibas.ch>
        Date:   Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 09:47:39 +0000
        Subj:   SHK 11.0521 Wooden O

[8]     From:   Sean Lawrence <seanlawrence@writeme.com>
        Date:   Wednesday, 22 Mar 2000 08:03:45 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

[9]     From:   Mary Jane Miller <mjmiller@spartan.ac.brocku.ca>
        Date:   Wednesday, 22 Mar 2000 14:39:27 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mike Jensen <mjensen@mayfieldpub.com>
Date:           Monday, 20 Mar 2000 11:02:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Wooden O
Comment:        SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

This thread has some interesting ideas, and Ed Taft's citation of Lear
was excellent, but I trust no one will claim that Baptista's

"O ho, Petruchio!" (Shrew 5.1)
sould be pronounced, "Zed ho, Petruchio!" or that Parolles,

"O my good lord..." (All's Well 5.2)
should  follow suit.  Well, OK, knowing Parolles, maybe...

Cheers,
Mike Jensen

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Kevin De Ornellas <k_de_ornellas@hotmail.com>
Date:           Monday, 20 Mar 2000 19:04:23 GMT
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

>in King Lear, 2.2.65 to Oswald, "Thou whoreson
>zed! Thou unnecessary letter!" [Apparently the letter "z" was pronounced
>"zed" then, not only by Kent but in general.]
>
>--Ed Taft

We still pronounce it 'zed' in Ireland, Ed.  Tom Paulin has referred to
the contemporary 'Ulster-Elizabethan' dialect.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <clifford.stetner@gte.net>
Date:           Monday, 20 Mar 2000 19:42:58 -0500
Subject: 11.0521 Wooden O?
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0521 Wooden O?

>What do people think?

I wooden O

Clifford Stetner
cstetner@liu.edu
http://phoenix.liu.edu/~cstetner/cds.htm

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Harry Hill <Harryjchill@aol.com>
Date:           Monday, 20 Mar 2000 20:36:46 EST
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

Bravo-rkewitz!

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Tim Richards <parallax@wire.net.au>
Date:           Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 14:05:40 +1100
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

Ed Taft wrote:

>Perhaps more relevant, in King Lear, 2.2.65 to Oswald, "Thou whoreson
>zed! Thou unnecessary letter!" [Apparently the letter "z" was pronounced
>"zed" then, not only by Kent but in general.]

Still is pronounced as "zed" here in Australia, and Britain as well.

Tim Richards.

[6]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Peter Holland <HollandP@hhs.bham.ac.uk>
Date:           Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 09:06:13 -0000
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

Re: 'Thou whoreson zed':

The letter 'z' is still pronounced 'zed' in England. And I still find it
difficult to sound it 'zee' when talking to Americans! The Oxford
Complete Works reads 'Thou whoreson Z', thereby leaving pronounciation
open to local variation (The Tragedy of King Lear, 2.2.63).

[7]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Werner Broennimann <Werner.Broennimann@unibas.ch>
Date:           Tuesday, 21 Mar 2000 09:47:39 +0000
Subject: Wooden O?
Comment:        SHK 11.0521 Wooden O?

For the pronunciation of "wooden O" MND 3.2.188 might be of interest
(with reference to the shape of the stars): "Fair Helena; who more
engilds the night Than all yon fiery oes and eyes of light".  Steevens's
emendation of Ant. & Cl. 5.2.81 (or rather the Folio) also speaks
against "nought" as a possible pronunciation: "His face was as the
heav'ns, and therein stuck As sun and moon, whick kept their course and
lighted The little O, th' earth" (F: little o'th'earth).  Among the
numerous passages where "O" refers to the female pudend Hamlet's "For O,
for O, the hobby-horse is forgot" (3.2.129) is relevant, because it
might arguably be echoed semantically, not phonetically, by Ophelia's
"You are naught, you are naught" (3.2.139).  Ophelia is not a zero
punner.  (More "O" parallels in Ernst Leisi, Problemwörter und
Problemstellen in Shakespeares Dramen, Tübingen 1997).

Werner Brönnimann

[8]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sean Lawrence <seanlawrence@writeme.com>
Date:           Wednesday, 22 Mar 2000 08:03:45 -0800
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

Ed Taft writes:

> Perhaps more relevant, in King Lear, 2.2.65 to Oswald, "Thou whoreson
> zed! Thou unnecessary letter!" [Apparently the letter "z" was pronounced
> "zed" then, not only by Kent but in general.]

When I was little, Canadian Sesame Street also pronounced the letter "Z"
as "zed".  In fact, I still tend not to get silly puns on corporate
names, like "EZ Carpet Cleaning".

Cheers,
Seán.

[9]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mary Jane Miller <mjmiller@spartan.ac.brocku.ca>
Date:           Wednesday, 22 Mar 2000 14:39:27 -0500
Subject: 11.0535 Re: Wooden O
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0535 Re: Wooden O

About "zed". That's how we pronounce that very necessary letter in
Canada.

How did Shakespeare pronounce lootenant/ leftenant ?

Mary Jane


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