SHAKSPER 2000: Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

From: Hardy M. Cook (editor@ws.bowiestate.edu)
Date: 03/10/00 

The Shakespeare Conference: SHK 11.0474  Friday, 10 March 2000.

[1]     From:   Ed Taft <TAFT@marshall.edu>
        Date:   Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 10:52:32 -0500 (EST)
        Subj:   Julius Caesar

[2]     From:   Sean Lawrence <seanlawrence@writeme.com>
        Date:   Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 08:51:15 -0800
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

[3]     From:   Clifford Stetner <clifford.stetner@gte.net>
        Date:   Wednesday, 8 Mar 2000 22:34:00 -0500
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0455 Re: Julius Caesar

[4]     From:   Carol Morley <C.A.Morley@westminster.ac.uk>
        Date:   Thursday, 9 Mar 2000 14:46:51 +0000
        Subj:   Re: SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

[5]     From:   Mike Jensen <MJENSEN@mayfieldpub.com>
        Date:   Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 08:56:37 -0800
        Subj:   SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede


[1]-----------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Ed Taft <TAFT@marshall.edu>
Date:           Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 10:52:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject:        Julius Caesar

I'm sorry if I offended the sensibilities of Judy Craig and L. Swilley.
But I stand by what I wrote.

--Ed Taft

[2]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Sean Lawrence <seanlawrence@writeme.com>
Date:           Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 08:51:15 -0800
Subject: 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

L. Swilley writes:

> The character of Caesar is best seen by our shaking loose from
> all historical references by renaming the characters Billy Joe and Jim
> Bob, or Cedric and Osgood. Let the play define the character.   If we
> let history intrude, we tend to expand the text beyond the immediate
> intentions of the play; in short, we miss Shakespeare's point about this
> person.

I appreciate the point about not projecting our own historical
stereotypes and reductions back unto Shakespeare's stage, as far too
many producers of Henry VIII seem to have done.  Nevertheless, we ought
to remember that Shakespeare isn't creating characters out of thin air.
People had heard of these historical figures before, and already had a
number of associations in mind.

The closest parallel I can think of would be some sort of historical
drama.  Before watching a movie about the Civil War (say, 'North and
South' or some such rubbish) the average television viewer already
basically knows who is on what side.  If a tall, bearded man walks into
a cabinet meeting wearing a top hat, everyone will know that it's Abe
Lincoln, and will have some associations in mind-the Gettysburg address,
the emancipation proclamation, etc.  There's no getting around this,
though Shakespeare might play on the audience's expectations-showing
Caesar as a half-deaf old dotard, for instance, instead of a young
soldier conquering Gaul.

Cheers,
Seán.

[3]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Clifford Stetner <clifford.stetner@gte.net>
Date:           Wednesday, 8 Mar 2000 22:34:00 -0500
Subject: 11.0455 Re: Julius Caesar
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0455 Re: Julius Caesar

You seem to be describing a kind of parallel lives that Plutarch,
Shakespeare's favorite historian, developed.  I'm not familiar with the
text, but didn't Plutarch  place Julius in this kind of parallel to some
Greek?

 Ed Taft wrote:

>...Like Christ, Caesar can be seen as either a
>megalomanic or the greatest of all men.  Like Christ, Caesar speaks in
>pithy "parable-like" sentences. Like Christ, Caesar "comes back from the
>dead."  Like Christ, his birth is strange and miraculous. Like Christ,
>he is surrounded by disciples who "betray" him. Like the gospel writers,
>Antony quickly makes Caesar into a mythic figure. And so forth.

[4]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Carol Morley <C.A.Morley@westminster.ac.uk>
Date:           Thursday, 9 Mar 2000 14:46:51 +0000
Subject: 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede
Comment:        Re: SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

Dear Roy Flannagan,

Surely it's a 19/20 century  phenomenon to see Polonius (and Prospero,
and Shylock) as elderly (dotard, grizzly magus and Fagin/Svengali) ? In
the Globe theatre company c. 1600, versatility must have been at a
premium amongst the senior actor/shareholders. Both Prospero and Shylock
are as young as they need to be while still having teenage daughters,
Caesar and Calpurnia are trying for a baby (!) although his various
drastic physical infirmities are frequently stressed by observers.
Shakespeare's Caesar is clinging to the remnants of his virility
(putting the'blame' on Calpurnia's barrenness comes to mind), or perhaps
he's just burnt out with his previous imperialist exertions.  By the
bye, I've just been ploughing through Chapman's "Caesar and Pompey' for
the first time- his Julius is an altogether more dynamic
characterisation, despite the more turgid classicizing verse style: the
same could be said for the 'earlier' portrayal of J.C.  in 'Catiline'. I
can't offhand remember how old the historical Caesar was at the time of
his death, but you've intrigued me. Thanks.

Carol

[5]-------------------------------------------------------------
From:           Mike Jensen <MJENSEN@mayfieldpub.com>
Date:           Wednesday, 08 Mar 2000 08:56:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede
Comment:        SHK 11.0467 Re: Julius Caesar, Cesario, Ganymede

> If Ed Taft or anyone else wants to know anything about Shakespeare's
> character, Julius Caesar, he should look only at the play and ignore
> history

Woah, cowboy!  What about the long productive history of scholarship
comparing the plays to their sources, examining what Shakespeare used,
what he deleted, and what he changed?  What about those interesting
essays identifying incidents deleted in the sources that live on in the
characterization.  This is interesting and worthwhile work that should
not be flippantly dismissed.

Cheers,
Mike Jensen


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